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Code and the Coding Coders who Code it
Live at Rails World part 2
Can you feel the festival vibes of Rails World? Brace yourself for an electrifying journey through the upcoming release of Rails 8, where authentication features are creating a buzz like never before. Picture yourself amidst a sea of passionate developers, where hallway interactions often outshine the scheduled talks. We'll also share a heartfelt tribute to Justin Searles, whose potentially final talk left a lasting mark on the Rails community. And guess what? The Rails World spirit isn't just confined to Rails enthusiasts; notable PHP community figures also joined, fostering a beautiful cross-framework camaraderie between Rails and Laravel.
Ever felt overwhelmed by deployment options? We’ve got you covered! This episode is packed with insights on the evolving landscape of Rails deployment tools. We share our mixed emotions about Heroku's discontinued free tier and our newfound appreciation for Hatchbox. The conversation steers towards Kamal and its promise of simplifying deployments, albeit with a learning curve. We discuss the dream of an official Rails playground, which could revolutionize how new developers deploy production apps, and the excitement surrounding default PWA support in Rails 8 that signals a bright future for web applications.
Ending on a high note, we dive into diverse deployment strategies by contrasting Laravel Cloud and Kamal, highlighting how Rails accommodates various needs with tools like Hatchbox, AWS, and Kamal. Nadia Odenayu's keynote on migrating from Heroku to Cloud 66 for a more cost-effective B2C app is also not to be missed. We speculate on the game-changing features of Rails 8.1, from action notifier to improved service worker integration, and dream ahead to Rails 9’s possibilities. Lastly, hear about the convenience of navigating the event with a bike rental app and the high anticipation for Eileen's keynote, promising even more exciting revelations.
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All right, might have to do this a couple times, we'll see. Hey everybody, we are doing a crossover episode at Rails World, day 2. This is Jeremy and Jess from Indie Rails, drew Bragg from Code and the Coding Coders who code it, adrian and Yaro from the Friendly Show. Hey guys, hey, hey what's up everybody?
Speaker 2:Hey, hey, nice to be here. So I's up everybody. Hey, hey, nice to be here.
Speaker 1:So I guess let's talk about Railsworld. How's it going this year?
Speaker 3:Well, authentication is coming in Rails 8, so we should all be very excited that we now have a complete framework.
Speaker 1:I think I know one guy who's very happy about that I heard Jason scream in the background.
Speaker 4:Oh, he stood up.
Speaker 3:He stood up in the audience right.
Speaker 5:Yeah, he's pumped, he's very excited, Great energy. Otherwise, oh yeah, Everybody's super pumped about it. There are people that haven't been to the first Rails World in Amsterdam and you can't capture this energy through photos or videos. You have to come here and everyone's like oh my god, this is a freaking festival.
Speaker 2:I love rails Talking about photos or videos. I'm at least trying to do it like making videos of walking around the space, posting them so that people that cannot visit have at least a chance to experience it a bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when you first started doing that, you had your phone out like walking around. I wasn't sure what you were doing and then I realized, okay, he's making videos, Okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the energy here is amazing. I think you hit the nail on the head when you were like it's sort of like a festival, like it feels a lot more like a big party than it does a conference.
Speaker 4:Yeah, for sure. We should get some context we're in day two so this is friday and we just got through day one, so what are your first thoughts?
Speaker 3:uh, day one was awesome, it was. It was a lot. Just because there's a lot of people here, uh, and I was trying to, I was trying to, I was actually trying to go to talks. This time, and every time I would try and go to a talk, I'd make it like five feet and see someone else. I wanted to talk to another five feet someone else I wanted to talk to Another five feet.
Speaker 3:Someone else I wanted to talk to. I made it to one, I made it to DHH's keynote and Justin Searle's talk and I missed every other talk I wanted to go to because I was just too busy talking to people.
Speaker 4:I'm usually pretty strict. I'm like, okay, I've got to go to the talk, I want to hear the talk. I haven't made it.
Speaker 2:I mean, the hallway track is still a good track to be on and you will still be able to watch all the talks online.
Speaker 1:That's true.
Speaker 4:You should use the opportunity to meet the people. Yeah, yeah, and I've been catching up with people that have attended a talk and they're telling me what happened and I'm keeping their brains on it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I am sad that I missed Justin's talk because he said I guess this was his last talk. Allegedly Justin's talk, because he said I guess this is his last talk. Allegedly. Allegedly. That's what he said. No way, that's what he said. Yeah.
Speaker 3:He's been doing it a long time. I always go to his talks. He puts a lot of time and effort, so I understand the like I need to step back from doing this because there's so much time and effort that goes into it. But I really enjoy his talks. He puts such care and time into his talks. They're always so good.
Speaker 4:He's so creative in the examples and the things that he uses. Yeah, and I believe him. He got a little choked up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he did Huh, man. Yeah, and Drew, you mentioned that it feels like a festival and I would like to say that it feels like a celebration of where we are in the Rails community.
Speaker 3:Yeah, big celebration. And that's the cool thing, I think, the idea of, like, we're going to have this conference quote-unquote around the same time that we release the new version of Rails, so that, yeah, we're celebrating in this case, we're celebrating Rails 8 coming out and that's such a cool, a cool vibe and way to handle this, because you get that party atmosphere.
Speaker 5:So you know, this is a cool conference when all the PHP folks come, because we have Taylor Otwell here, we have Caleb Porzio, we have Adam Wathman, jonathan Ring, like amazing freaking folks, and they step by to see what we're doing.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's pretty cool that they like honor us really by coming here and visiting, hanging out with us and seeing what it's all about.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's super cool that we can have that like level of crossover, where it's like Laravel isn't competing with Rails. It exists because of Rails but is now also its own thing. It's almost like sort of like a fork but PHP, so not. But it's just so cool to see two projects like that that have just similar visions but different approaches to doing it and then seeing them be able to hang out with one another and collab and just be really cool people to hang out with one another and collab and like just be really cool, uh, people to hang out with I think taylor um hit the nail on the head with his tweet yesterday where he said that, uh, he's at rails world and you know he said rails 8, just ship and that's it.
Speaker 5:like this is both the frameworks, visions, like both frameworks have the same vision about shipping fast, having everything included, about moving fast and bringing value. And then you know you can scale, you can do whatever else later, but you can do a Rails new or Laravel new or whatever and just move incredibly fast.
Speaker 3:Yeah, very fast the MVC pattern, especially when you're following it so good.
Speaker 4:I want to go back to. We're talking about celebrating Rails 8, but I feel like we're also still celebrating the Rails organization and all the improvements that it's making in the community. It's like last year was its kind of first year and this year it just feels like it's picking up even more steam, doing more things like finding its groove.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And that's been a celebration too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the docs work has been. Like Amanda said yesterday morning. I guess that the docs were overdue for a redesign and a rewrite, so it's nice to see that finally happening and I think they're doing a great job with it from what I've seen so far.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we were talking to Boomy, who was working on that yesterday. I was talking to her and then I'm still trying to meet. I want to meet John, the guy behind all the design work. I think he's here, but I haven't seen him yet.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, talking of new releases, what are you guys most excited about? I?
Speaker 5:mean authentication Did we not already talk about this Authentication, authentication is coming to Rails.
Speaker 3:It's so exciting.
Speaker 1:I do like the generator approach to that yeah big. I think that is an underused tool, like generating. We've always had scaffolding, but even scaffolding feels kind of stale. But this kind of generation, this is kind of code that you want to own. It's probably not library code, but using generators for that, I think, makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 3:So I like that. I love Devise. I've used it in a ton of projects, but it is one of those. The moment you start breaking from how Devise does things, it sort of becomes a bigger pain in the butt than it's worth. So the generator approach, where it's like we'll give you everything and if you need to modify it, here are the files, because you end up doing that with the device.
Speaker 1:Anyway, you end up ejecting all the controllers and views so you can modify them yourself, but it's a little more complicated, so yeah, yeah, I'm most excited about the Hotwire native.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:Well, I'm most excited about Hotwire Native. Yeah, yeah, I saw that, something that wasn't even mentioned until now. Okay, but I think somebody is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm doing a lightning talk about Hotwire.
Speaker 1:Native today, oh nice.
Speaker 2:Nice, there's no big stage talk about it. I think Jay Oms and Joe Mazzotti couldn't make it, but I'm going to be at the kids' table. Oh nice, doing the small talk about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it would make sense, I guess, if Joe was here like that, maybe he would do that, but I think he's probably still on parental leave or something like that. He said he was taking time off or whatever, so it makes sense.
Speaker 3:He's a busy man.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, well-deserved time absolutely I read the uh the landing page, where I know it was cool to see them give him that shot out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'm happy about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's well deserved but I think the solid trifecta, too, is really cool. Just the the approach. I'm, I'm, I'm very excited to leave here and spin up a rails 8 app and try all those things out, because I think it's really cool. I know the deployment stuff was like the focus of the keynote, but I'm still pretty interested in all the solid things yeah, I'm probably more interested in the solid stuff I I was surprised a couple weeks ago to see solid cable I.
Speaker 1:It wasn't new to me here, but just a couple weeks ago like where did this? Come this come from. I did not expect that. It was just a total surprise.
Speaker 4:Apparently it was so DHH could get his presentation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean yeah, you just need that one little piece, that one little puzzle piece like put in. Yeah.
Speaker 5:I think there's one more Redis puzzle piece and that's Credis. Yeah, I think it won't take long until we find an adapter to it as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah Huh, I still like Credis. I guess I'm not like ready to get rid of it. Yeah, I'm curious. Keep watching. I'm not a new. I don't know. I'm not a new tech guy. I like boring stuff and I'm a late adopter on so many things, which is weird being in software and doing that. But I don't know.
Speaker 2:Talking of deployment and late adoption. Have you guys already tried Kamal?
Speaker 1:Have not. I don't miss Capistrano.
Speaker 2:I used it for years.
Speaker 1:I don't miss running my own VPSs. I'm still a Heroku guy. I still love it. I don't know. I do agree DHH was saying like it's expensive, it is Like we should get more compute for what we're paying. But I don't want to go back to you know, capistrano.
Speaker 5:I'm on Hatchbox and I love it. Yeah, capistrano.
Speaker 4:I'm on Hatchbox and I love it. Hatchbox is awesome. It's made for Hatchbox.
Speaker 5:It's awesome.
Speaker 2:For me, the magical, the wonderful thing about Heroku was letting new people who just want to create their first Rails app create a Heroku account and deploy their first Rails application to production in a few minutes. It's like the perfect demonstration of creating a new application, creating a table and pushing it to the world. But now Heroku doesn't have the free tiers anymore, so that's a pity.
Speaker 1:Okay, I've had this idea. I really wish. Okay, I think DHH was saying yesterday we need the on-ramp on the floor for onboarding new people into Rails and new developers brand new developers coming to Rails. I still think there's a bunch that could be done. It's not on the floor yet. It's not on the floor.
Speaker 5:It's very close, it's getting there.
Speaker 1:But I wouldn't say Kamal is an easy tool to pick up for beginners.
Speaker 1:I wish there was something like Playground for people that are doing a. Let's say, you want to run a Rails hackathon or do a Rails weekend where people are learning and want to spin up a real app in production. I wish there was a way to do that really, really simply, that was sort of official and that you could like test out rails and production and know it was like sort of official from from the rails site. You go there You're like, oh, I want to do this and and then you wouldn't have to drop down to command line tools. You could actually like spin something up, you know, and then push a repo or whatever and connect a repo and have it up.
Speaker 3:I mean, I think every release we get a little bit, we lower the floor a little bit right, like every Rails release that comes out, we're just making it a little bit easier for beginners a little bit and like, even like the first, kamal, that's cool, it super helps. And then, but it's like, oh, if you have, if you want to do SSL, like you're probably running through a proxy or a load balancer or something kind of doing some weird stuff Kamal 2 takes care of that. So now SSL with let's Encrypt out of the box, that's awesome. So I think, as they iterate on Kamal and the next versions of Rails, I think we'll get closer to what you're talking about, because I agree with you and I would imagine that there's a lot of people that share that sentiment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I also think this test environment or playground environment that I imagine could also work really well with SQLite the fact that you've got all the solid libraries and then, if you use SQLite only for it, you could kind of create that place where people could get to production with toy apps really easily, really cheaply. I don't know, that's something I wish we had.
Speaker 5:I can just imagine DevOps people rolling their eyes when they hear about yeah, there's a playground where anybody can just deploy an app and we can just they're like oh, my God there's security issues there's like scaling issues. There's like oh, yeah, but that would be cool for, like a hackathon thing yeah, just you know you get access and get push.
Speaker 1:I think that's a place that people will come into the community or could come into the community. Be like oh yeah, there's a weekend thing, we're going to build Rails apps and launch them, like a lot of times. It doesn't need to be like you start with things that are toys and then toys eventually become real tools.
Speaker 5:That was the Heroku free plan. Right yeah, exactly, exactly. And that is what is missing now.
Speaker 1:It was the thing that was helping onboard Rails, that was helping onboard new Rails people into production apps. And it's not enough to have it running locally. You don't get the magic until it's in product. Right, right, yeah, I mean that's how my boot camp did.
Speaker 3:It was we just spun up Heroku accounts. We learned a little bit about Heroku just so we could troubleshoot our own stuff. But for the most part it was just like here's a free plan and all you have to do is and it goes.
Speaker 1:And clan and all you have to do is and it goes and like that's. That's sorely missed in the community and I don't fault heroku heroku for that. Like it makes sense why they would do that, but they're elite. There's a gap now.
Speaker 5:Yeah, they left a hole who do we know at heroku?
Speaker 1:I do. I do have a friend there.
Speaker 5:Let's get him on a call. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3:Uh, one thing I'm I'm actually really excited about, because I've been excited about this for years and and it becoming a default in rails 8 and I'm a little bummed that it didn't get mentioned in the keynote, but there was a talk about it is pwa support okay yeah like it's not that complicated.
Speaker 3:You could just you can add the files to your rails app right now, but like it out of the box. I've been a big fan of pwas for years and just seeing them grow and become better and it's like, yes, there is definitely a future where you do not need to have a native app if you have a good web app. I'm pumped for that.
Speaker 2:Talking about PWAs, during the Rails World Conference, there is a PWA with the schedule of the event and a separate PWA that is a Chemfire instance for the event, and I think it's a great first step for all the Rails developers that have not used PWAs to be guided to try it out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I like that they open-sourced the conference app to SuperLC, all of that. You know they use the app. They're like hey, that worked really well. And then they can just go look at the source code and see it's not that scary or complicated. There's a lot going on Service workers. There's definitely not a ground floor entry to service workers, but like it's not overly complex. And you get a lot of really cool stuff with some simple service workers.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and Amanda was calling for other conferences to use it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I like that too. It's not just open source so you can learn from it. But like, hey, if you're running a small conference, like Rocky Mountain, ruby is a two-day conference, it's a single track but still like, hey, you've got an app now, that's awesome, yeah.
Speaker 5:It won't hurt to use it right.
Speaker 3:No, not at all.
Speaker 2:Talking of deployment, it's also interesting how Laravel and Rails went two completely separate paths Completely different ways. Laravel Cloud and Kamal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the no pass. Yeah, I did feel a little awkward in the keynote for Taylor.
Speaker 3:It's all part of the big tent, like I mean, there's going to be people that think that the cloud is here to stay. That's the way to go, that's how we want to do it. Yeah, and that's fine If you want to use Kamal, if you want to use something completely, I still think Hatchbox is boss.
Speaker 3:But you know like there's so many, and I like that we are deliberately trying to get everybody into this tent of like it sort of doesn't matter how you want to do it. Here are all of the tools. And Rails has always historically made it really easy to just. Like you don't want to do it this way, cool, here's an easy way to swap it in and out. Like it's easier if you stick to the Rails way for sure, especially during upgrade time, but like it's nice that we can do it whatever flavor that suits you best.
Speaker 5:Yeah, it's all about requirements. Sometimes you just want to move fast. Hatchbox is going to be good. Sometimes you need scale, then you go. You know full AWS and whatever. Sometimes you want to hack around. Kamal is your friend, you have. You have one hobby server. Whatever you need, you have options, which is awesome.
Speaker 1:I think the first time I really considered this seriously was hearing Nadia Odenayu talk about she's building a B2C consumer app and they needed to leave Heroku. The cost was cost prohibitive for them to stay. Leave Heroku the cost just like it was cost prohibitive for them to stay on Heroku, given that it was, like you know, b2c. Like B2B, it makes sense to stay on Heroku a lot of times. But small team B2C, the margins are so small like it made sense to move to AWS, especially if you have a freemium model yeah, yeah, exactly yeah.
Speaker 1:So this is where it starts to actually make sense to me. That's when I maybe look that way, and I just haven't worked on many apps like that, but that helped me see there is a real need for people to be able to do that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was blown away by her keynote at RansConf when she went through and she actually showed the numbers and graphs of like. Here we were on Heroku and we were in trouble and we moved to Cloud 66.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's, right, cloud 66.
Speaker 3:And then she showed the graph. Afterwards I was like, holy, yeah, there's a little bit more work involved. It's not as seamless as a Heroku deploy, but that was a big jump in numbers.
Speaker 1:I mean there's a difference between her being able to make a business work and not. And then it's like, okay, yeah, it makes perfect sense. You need to do that.
Speaker 2:So Rails 8.1 is supposed to release the action notifier and I suppose it might also make the work with service workers and with the sending notifications easier.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Is 8.1 where we're getting searched too. Active Record Search.
Speaker 1:That was a total surprise. Where did this come from?
Speaker 3:They've been trying to solve some problems at Hay.
Speaker 1:That's how that came about.
Speaker 3:Their search was really bad in the beginning and it has gotten better. And I'm guessing that's the extraction, because the search has gotten a lot better.
Speaker 1:I was in the way way back. Did anyone see some of the code samples? Did it look like it was active record models that are doing the indexing. You're indexed, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yep, yep, yep, exactly, yeah, it's all, it's active record all the way down. Yeah, and you just kind of define your search parameters in your model, which is super cool, yeah, and yeah, I think that's going to be awesome.
Speaker 4:And how is this different than like a PG search? Do we think it's probably going to?
Speaker 5:be in a similar. It's a similar thing like a PG search or a RANSAC or you know it's going to build your queries for you. I don't think it's. You know Elasticsearch, it's like a different. You know like kind of service they built just for search. It's going to be in the database.
Speaker 4:I think. But it's creating an index, right, mm-hmm.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah, yeah, I don't think it's terribly different than a PG search. But if you're on MySQL or if you're using SQLite, you don't have PG search. So the whole ActiveRecord supports all of these things on the back end. So when you use ActiveRecord, it allows you to have anything on your back end. You use PG search, you're using Postgres, no matter what, not that? I think there's many people like oh, we're going to use Postgres this week.
Speaker 5:Next week we'll use my sequel, but like it allows, for that uh, which I think is cool.
Speaker 3:No, that's nice. I'm somehow more uh. I'm looking forward to 8.1.
Speaker 5:Yeah, maybe it's because we kind of have eight right now.
Speaker 3:So yeah, we do have eight, yeah, yeah, I think maybe you know, as you get closer to a release, you kind of hear like, oh, this is coming out, this is coming out, this is coming out. And as you get closer to a release, you kind of hear like, oh, this is coming out, this is coming out, this is coming out. And then you get the big show and it's like yay, but then the 8-1 was like no one knew anything, that's the new shiny show.
Speaker 2:now I'm looking forward to 9.
Speaker 1:I'm most excited about the action text for Markdown. Oh yeah, I love Markdown.
Speaker 4:Yes, oh, yeah, yeah, markdown support.
Speaker 1:I love Markdown. I don't know how their Markdown editor will be, but what I'm most interested in is the action text embeds. That's the thing I want extracted from the WYSIWYG so that I can use it with anything, Because I'm doing an app right now where I've got a Markdown editor but I want to be able to do drag-and-drop file uploads but not just have a URL. I want to be able to do rich embeddings, but with Markdown, and have some kind of preprocessing to render those.
Speaker 5:So yeah, with Markdown you can go a little bit wild because the Markdown spec doesn't really. I mean, they have the image kind of parentheses and stuff, but if you check out what GitHub is doing with their alerts, that's different from what VidPress is doing with their alerts. It's a different kind of markup inside, so you can go a little bit wild. So I think one good point here would be is this new editor or the active action text adapter? Would it support adding these embeddings? Would it support these? I'm hoping.
Speaker 5:Because we don't want tricks. It's a little bit difficult to add things to tricks, but you want to add these ones to bottom line.
Speaker 3:That would be nice if we don't just get a new markdown mode or markdown capability, but we also get a better I don't want to call it a full-blown plugin. Api but just something a little bit easier to extend. It's not that hard to extend tricks, but it's complex enough. It's not hard, but it's complex, so let's lower the complexity level a little bit, that'd be, nice Compress the complexity.
Speaker 4:I like what David said yesterday when he was saying the problem's not finished when you've solved the problem. It's finished when you've made it simple, yep, and I think if we keep shooting for that on all these problems, then we're just going to keep getting better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for me, the main takeaway, the main spirit from the keynote of David was challenge the status quo, don't be afraid to challenge it.
Speaker 1:That is not me. I am like I'm fine.
Speaker 5:I'm fine with my status quo, right Well, I guess.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's interesting Like you need all types of people. I don't tend to think of things that way. A lot of times, like, except, except what is and then find your own workarounds, is my like default mode. I don't think about like, how do I change, how do I change the world to you know, like fit and suit, like my mentality or whatever. But it's interesting to like we need everything, we need all types of people. You need people like that that make new things happen. You need the early adopters that iron out all the things and you need the people that live on keeping things stable or whatever. I don't know if I'm in that camp or not, but it sounds boring.
Speaker 5:For example, I don't want to touch a server. I'm that pink elephant with when it comes to servers even like authorization, authentication, like I don't even want to touch that. I want smarter people to take care of everything, right, but I'm glad that we have that option, that, yeah, somebody can go in and, you know, tinker with it, yeah, early on in my career, the place I worked.
Speaker 3:I we did a lot of like on the metal server, like deploying with Capistrano any kind of server issue. I'd SSH in and like have to know my Linux commands and it's not. It isn't that complicated. You don't have to be that pink elephant, but also like that's not what I want to do. I don't want to be like a system admin.
Speaker 1:I don't want to have to go back to a server closet. I spent plenty of time in a server closet. I don't need to spend any more. I don't want to do that. That's not what I want to do.
Speaker 3:I want to write Ruby code so like as much as I think Kamal is great and it's going to be as it gets better, it's going to be even more helpful for people who are like I can with all the solid stuff and Kamal just deploys it for me. That's awesome. I'll probably stick to something that does the deployments for me, because that's just not what I want to do.
Speaker 5:You don't want that to be your problem 100%, because there's always a problem.
Speaker 3:So it's.
Speaker 4:DNS. If you have a framework that's truly going to be a one-person framework, then you've got to have options like that.
Speaker 1:Particularly for that B2C.
Speaker 4:You can't do it all yeah, and but if you want to do it, you can. Yeah, and maybe it's not that hard, but everybody has different preferences and different strengths and weaknesses, so it's nice to have the plugins and the third-party resources to fill those gaps yeah, it's not just what you're using rails for right now, it's all the things that you could, so all the types of problems that you could solve with it.
Speaker 1:I think that's one of the reasons I keep, you know, I still keep doing Rails, is you know? Like I know, I know that I can solve not just the problems I have for clients right now, but like there's like a plethora of options, like for any other kinds of things I might hit.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm excited for day two. I'm probably gonna get stuck in the hallway track a little bit again, but uh, there's definitely some really cool talks today that I'm hoping to make um anybody have anything on their list.
Speaker 3:That's like I can't miss this one the keynote which we're missing this morning I was like I love eileen's talks because's talks, especially when she gets into talking about lowering the barrier of entry to open source and we need people contributing and knowing they can. She gets so fired up and passionate I'm like I can't wait for her keynote. Whoops, that started 15 minutes ago. My bad.
Speaker 2:By the way, one of the most exciting things for me on the schedule was the fireside chat between DHH Toby and Mats. Yeah, how did you? Most exciting things for me on the schedule was the fireside chat between dhh toby and mats yeah how did you like it, guys?
Speaker 1:I missed it I'm gonna have to catch it on the recording as well.
Speaker 4:I called bits and pieces, um, but the thing that really stood out to me is I just and that's another thing about just coming the rails world that you just can never get is that you have Matt, dhh and Toby up on the stage and you know, you just don't get a chance to see the people that you look up to or that have, like, paved these paths that have made all this possible for us, and that's just really cool and it's really cool to see them talk about it and, like, I got a chance to meet Matt the other night and that was a highlight.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's awesome. I can't wait to meet him.
Speaker 2:To me it felt like you've been watching a movie series for many seasons and this is like the satisfying conclusion yes, it's not over, it's not over, it's not over?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're right, it's not over the season.
Speaker 2:Rails 7 season is over. Rails 8 season is just beginning. It was a wonderful season finale. Yes, there you go, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I am definitely most excited for the Shopify closing party at Shopify.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, oh, it's at their headquarters. Yeah yeah, headquarters, yeah Nice here in. Toronto.
Speaker 5:It's going to be awesome. Looking forward to that as well.
Speaker 1:I hope I don't have to walk anymore. We went to a party last night and we sort of walked halfway. I guess I'm breaking in new shoes and my feet are like oh my gosh.
Speaker 3:Not a good place to break in new shoes. It's a lot of walking.
Speaker 1:That's a tip. That's a conference tip. Right there, don't break in new shoes. It's a lot of walking. Yeah, that's a tip. That's a conference tip. Right there, don't break in new shoes, actually bicycle rentals are really good in Toronto.
Speaker 2:I downloaded the app, created the account in two minutes and took a bicycle to get to the event venue.
Speaker 1:Somebody said they saw you on a bike. I'm trying to remember who it was.
Speaker 5:So see if the bicycle rental, instead of having an app, it was like a PWA or Rails.
Speaker 2:it would have been easier, Like lower barrier of entry, everybody would use a bike. Yeah, I mean, my data roaming is expensive. I paid for that app.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah All right, cool.
Speaker 3:Well, let's go see how much of Eileen's keynote we can catch, and maybe we'll do another one of these later today. Sweet.
Speaker 5:Thanks guys.
